Felix Kling and Kullberg don't like the truth.

General discussion about computer chess...
Zherkovv
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:12 am

Felix Kling and Kullberg don't like the truth.

Post by Zherkovv » Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:37 am

By chessorpoker Date 2010-06-10 20:45


i haven't purchased rybka4 and will not purchase it. there has been too many broken promises and scandal.

i have some secret rybka3 settings and it seems rybka4 is only +17 elo when i tested it over 800 games at 5/0. maybe people will figure out how to better configure Rybka4 but i am personally very disappointed.

i think, just by the sales of Rybka4 and how poorly it is doing on market Vas and his rybka team are starting to see what i've been saying all along. Quite simply put you've destroyed your reputation and your customers confidence and you have done little to nothing to restore it. its as if your customers are still waiting for the real Rybka4/Cloud to show up before making a commitment. even Rybka4 as it stands today was so under tested, when delivered you didn't even know what product you were giving to your customers. this entire situation for the last 2 years has really been poor and to keep things going you need to give people more value not less, you have to give them extra incentive. if anything this version of Rybka4 as it stands is only adding more confusion. i can help you all find a solution. we as forum members can help you out of this dilemma but you all cut off communication with us.

it seems that somewhere someone has given you really bad advice... i think we all know exactly who this business person is; though he is certainly wealthy and a fantastic chess player he is just one person. you have ignored the opinions of many for the opinions of one. you did this in order to protect your product and your potential profit yet you can see now, how counter-productive it all has been.

you must clearly see what is going on. the question is what will you do about it? they say there are two kinds of people those that stand up and those that look away.

Felix Kling and Kullberg did not like this post from "chesspoker" in the Rybka forum :lol:

By Felix Kling Date 2010-06-10 21:21





I'll ask Dadi to ban him. Felix Kling
(Rybka webmaster)





By Kullberg Date 2010-06-10






Thanks for these informations. They tell me you use a pirated Rybka 4. Could you please tell me your real name and address so we can prosecute you? Playchess handles: Rechenschieber, Victor_Kullberg

Jeremy Bernstein
Site Admin
Posts: 1226
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:49 am
Real Name: Jeremy Bernstein
Location: Berlin, Germany
Contact:

Re: Felix Kling and Kullberg don't like the truth.

Post by Jeremy Bernstein » Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:44 am

I don't want to moralize, but it's not the height of cleverness to advertise that you're using an illegal copy of Rybka 4 on the rybkaforum.

Zherkovv
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:12 am

Re: Felix Kling and Kullberg don't like the truth.

Post by Zherkovv » Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:00 am

Jeremy Bernstein wrote:I don't want to moralize, but it's not the height of cleverness to advertize that you're using an illegal copy of Rybka 4 on the rybkaforum.
Maybe he got it from a friend ? Or Felix send him a copy just like he did with Harry ? :lol:

zamar
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:28 am

Re: Felix Kling and Kullberg don't like the truth.

Post by zamar » Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:08 am

Rybka is the propriety of Vasik Rajlich.

He has the right to do anything he wants to do with it.
If you don't like it, simply don't buy it and don't use it.

John Blake
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:00 pm
Real Name: John Blake

Re: Felix Kling and Kullberg don't like the truth.

Post by John Blake » Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:59 pm

I have been a Rybka customer since the early 2xx versions, I'll buy R4 soon, but I don't think the next one will be on my list of purchases.

Its disappointing the way customers have been treated, no R3+, little progress in 2 years, doubt over strength of R4 compared to cloud Rybka etc.

Zarkon
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:40 pm
Contact:

Re: Felix Kling and Kullberg don't like the truth.

Post by Zarkon » Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:49 pm

Relax! There are more important things than bitterness towards chess programmers! :)

Zherkovv
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:12 am

Re: Felix Kling and Kullberg don't like the truth.

Post by Zherkovv » Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:32 am

Zarkon wrote:Relax! There are more important things than bitterness towards chess programmers! :)
I'm relax! We are just waiting for the real Rybka4 for more than 2 years!

Zherkovv
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:12 am

Re: Felix Kling and Kullberg don't like the truth.

Post by Zherkovv » Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:13 am

zamar wrote:Rybka is the propriety of Vasik Rajlich.

He has the right to do anything he wants to do with it.
If you don't like it, simply don't buy it and don't use it.
You better be clever, Vas is using his naive lapdogs. I think he screws you in the brain again and again :lol:

Nelson Hernandez
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:48 am

Re: Felix Kling and Kullberg don't like the truth.

Post by Nelson Hernandez » Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:15 pm

Look, I have more than my share of disappointments and heartburns with Rybka 4, Vas's project management skills, his tendency to make promises that he won't keep, his procrastination, his insularity, his apparently hedonistic tendencies which drive him to work on whatever gives him the most self-gratification rather than taking care of the meat-and-potatoes aspects of chess development.

The neglect of time management, for instance: not sexy yet an absolutely core function that needed careful, scientific calibration. The ignoring of bishop underpromotion: a totally trivial omission in terms of ELO, but conceptually the kind of thing that comes across like chalk screeching on a blackboard for analysts and problem-developers. It would take him maybe five minutes to resolve that issue. And then there's the unthinkable, unbelievable loss of Rybka 3 source code. (The British have a great word for this kind of thing: this kind of code development is "shambolic" rather than systematic.) No doubt all of you have valid gripes as well. I've provided only a partial list.

Yet, I get a sense that in spite of his very evident human flaws the guy gets a bum rap. Carefully consider his position. He has not held a regular job in seven years. Full stop. In human terms, do you recognize what that means? He has to make a living with Rybka; he has no choice in the matter, because after a CV like the one he's built, and given his age (40) most conventional companies would feel trepidation about hiring him. They'd worry not about his talent, but about his ability to conform to a regular, systematic routine. Secondly, you have consider that he is not like you or me in other ways. You guys should have seen him the first time I linked up with him on Skype last December. He looked like he hadn't shaved or had a haircut in six months. I am not saying this is a critical point, but it is still a data point that you need to factor in there somehow. He's outside the mainstream; he doesn't think like you or me. He is untethered from convention, and that fact certainly leads to misunderstandings and cognitive dissonance between him and us, his customer base. Do you remember that throwaway line of his in his interview with me about how he worked for Ford Motor Company and was walking around the office in his bare feet? What does that tell you?

Now consider that this guy, who routinely paints outside the lines, is in effect the CEO of the Rybka operation. He runs corporate communications. He runs research and development. He has his hand in every major decision. Imagine how scary it would be for shareholders if he was leading a publicly-traded corporation!

Yet taking all things into consideration, Vas has to run his operation as he sees fit. If he didn't have full control he'd quit, because it wouldn't be fun anymore.

He also has to come up with a product menu that maximizes profits, not just for him, but for every company that is affiliated with Rybka.

And he has to do this while battling relentless software piracy and dealing with the most critical, contentious, neurotic, most perpetually dissatified customer base anybody has ever seen. Think about it. If Vas came up with a program that was omniscient, that was as good as 32-man EGTBs but with features that could additionally identify the most difficult winning line for humans and computers to spot, what would the response be? 1) rampant global piracy, 2) the entire chess establishment roaring in anger at how he had destroyed the game. What would Vas get? Relatively little money for such a monumental achievement and his face on the cover of European magazines as the destroyer of chess. Late-night comedians might crack jokes about him. After a couple of weeks of tumult he would fade into obscurity.

Looking at all the facts and trying to put myself in his shoes--er, bare feet--I conclude that he is doing the best he can, given his palette of talents and weaknesses. We can feel exasperation, but in the end he is a very talented and spectacularly free human being trying to make a decent living for himself, his wife and soon-to-be child. You have to feel sympathy for him. Consider what he has done. His program, even with all the things we wish it did better, has been on top for nearly five straight years. How many people in this world are at the top of anything for five years running? It almost defies human nature.

That's my apologia for Vasik Rajlich, not an angel, but a man very unlike the rest of us whom we all ought to respect while making big allowances for his idiosyncrasies, and ultimately, his humanity.

Nelson Hernandez
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:48 am

Re: Felix Kling and Kullberg don't like the truth.

Post by Nelson Hernandez » Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:47 pm

Note, the above post was made BEFORE reading BB's remarkable document. While my perceptions of Vas haven't changed, I do have a long list of new questions.

Post Reply