kingliveson - Kappatoo

Correspondence games between OpenChess members here...

kingliveson - Kappatoo

Postby kingliveson » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:16 am

Anyone want to continue this opening? You can use all available resources at your disposal including Tianhe-1A.

[Event "Correspondence chess"]
[Site "open-chess.org"]
[Date "2011.02.14"]
[Round "1"]
[White "kingliveson"]
[Black "*"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "A00"]
[Opening "*"]
[TimeControl "*"]
[Termination "*"]
1. h3 e5 2. c3 d5 3. d4 Nc6 4. Be3 Nf6 5. dxe5
PAWN : Knight >> Bishop >> Rook >>Queen
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Re: kingliveson - ?

Postby keoki010 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:47 am

kingliveson wrote:Anyone want to continue this opening? You can use all available resources at your disposal including Tianhe-1A.

[Event "Correspondence chess"]
[Site "open-chess.org"]
[Date "2011.02.14"]
[Round "1"]
[White "kingliveson"]
[Black "*"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "A00"]
[Opening "*"]
[TimeControl "*"]
[Termination "*"]
1. h3 e5 2. c3 d5 3. d4 Nc6 4. Be3 Nf6 5. dxe5


Hmmm, looks like black should win with good play.
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Re: kingliveson - ?

Postby Uly » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:09 am

Well, keoki, he gives you the chance to play black :)
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Re: kingliveson - ?

Postby BB+ » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:24 am

Is the question whether White can draw? I can tell you what Monte Carlo said, but then, you can probably do that yourself too.
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Re: kingliveson - ?

Postby kingliveson » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:06 am

The problem is I don't think engines understand this opening well.
PAWN : Knight >> Bishop >> Rook >>Queen
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Re: kingliveson - ?

Postby BB+ » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:19 am

OK, don't expect much, but 5... Nxe5, if 6 Nd2 then 6... c5
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Re: kingliveson - ?

Postby kingliveson » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:16 pm

BB+ wrote:OK, don't expect much, but 5... Nxe5, if 6 Nd2 then 6... c5



There is a transposition that occurs whether 6 ..c5 or 6 .. bd6 is played. Houdini actually understands to a point how white can equalize by moving Bishop on e3, pawn on e2, and then white square bishop.
PAWN : Knight >> Bishop >> Rook >>Queen
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Re: kingliveson - ?

Postby User923005 » Thu May 19, 2011 1:41 am

BB+ wrote:OK, don't expect much, but 5... Nxe5, if 6 Nd2 then 6... c5


Code: Select all
05/18/2011 4:07:03 PM Level: 300 Seconds
Analyzing engine: Critter_1.01_64bit

 1 -                   
    Avoid move:
    Best move (Critter_1.01_64bit): c7-c5
    Not found in: 30:00
     2/2   00:00            525   18,750   +0.24   Bc8-f5 Ng1-f3
     3/4   00:00            979   33,758   +0.21   Bc8-f5 Ng1-f3 Bf8-d6 Qd1-a4+ c7-c6 Nf3xe5 Bd6xe5 Be3xa7
     3/4   00:00          1,258   41,933   +0.22   Bc8-d7 Ng1-f3 Bf8-d6 Nf3xe5 Bd6xe5
     4/5   00:00          1,623   54,100   +0.22   Bc8-d7 Ng1-f3 Bf8-d6 Nf3xe5 Bd6xe5
     4/5   00:00          2,426   78,258   +0.36   Bf8-d6 Ng1-f3 O-O Nf3xe5 Bd6xe5 Nd2-f3
     5/6   00:00          3,202   100,062   +0.36   Bf8-d6 Ng1-f3 O-O Nf3xe5 Bd6xe5 Nd2-f3
     6/7   00:00          4,397   122,138   +0.43   Bf8-d6 Ng1-f3 Ne5xf3+ Nd2xf3 O-O Qd1-d3 Bc8-d7
     7/10   00:00          5,809   111,711   +0.42   Bf8-d6 Ng1-f3 Ne5xf3+ Nd2xf3 O-O Qd1-d3 Bc8-d7 Ra1-d1 c7-c5 Nf3-g5
     8/11   00:00         11,015   46,476   +0.46   Bf8-d6 Ng1-f3 Ne5-c6 Nd2-b3 O-O Qd1-d3 h7-h6 Ra1-d1 Rf8-e8
     9/12   00:00         18,640   55,147   +0.46   Bf8-d6 Ng1-f3 Ne5-c6 Nd2-b3 O-O Qd1-d3 h7-h6 Ra1-d1 Rf8-e8
    10/14   00:00         36,712   94,618   +0.52   Bf8-d6 Ng1-f3 Ne5-c6 Nd2-b3 O-O Qd1-d3 h7-h6 Ra1-d1 Rf8-e8 Nb3-c5 Qd8-e7
    11/15   00:00         73,543   178,502   +0.48   Bf8-d6 Ng1-f3 Ne5-c6 Nd2-b3 O-O Nb3-d4 h7-h6 Nd4-b5 Bc8-f5 Nb5xd6 Qd8xd6 Qd1-b3
    12/20-   00:00        354,945   640,694   +0.39   Bf8-d6 Ng1-f3 Ne5-c6 Nd2-b3 O-O Nb3-d4 h7-h6 Nd4-b5 Bc8-f5 Nb5xd6 Qd8xd6 Qd1-b3
    12/26-   00:01        728,572   959,910   +0.31   Bf8-d6 Ng1-f3 Ne5-c6 Nd2-b3 O-O Nb3-d4 h7-h6 Nd4-b5 Bc8-f5 Nb5xd6 Qd8xd6 Qd1-b3
    12/26   00:01        924,608   1,120,736   +0.34   Bf8-d6 Ng1-f3 Ne5-g6 Qd1-c2 O-O O-O-O c7-c5 Kc1-b1 Rf8-e8 g2-g4 b7-b5 g4-g5 Nf6-h5 Nd2-b3
    13/26   00:01      1,062,289   1,203,045   +0.37   Bf8-d6 Ng1-f3 Ne5-g6 Qd1-c2 O-O O-O-O c7-c5 Kc1-b1 Rf8-e8 g2-g4 Bc8-e6 Nf3-g5 Be6-d7 Nd2-c4 Bd6-c7 Nc4-d2 Qd8-e7 Bf1-g2 h7-h6
    14/26   00:01      1,250,581   1,001,265   +0.37   Bf8-d6 Ng1-f3 Ne5-g6 Qd1-c2 O-O O-O-O c7-c5 Kc1-b1 Rf8-e8 g2-g4 Bc8-e6 Nf3-g5 Be6-d7 Nd2-c4 Bd6-c7 Nc4-d2 Qd8-e7 Bf1-g2 h7-h6
    15/26   00:03      1,791,316   676,223   +0.37   Bf8-d6 Ng1-f3 Ne5-g6 Qd1-c2 O-O O-O-O c7-c5 Kc1-b1 Rf8-e8 g2-g4 Bc8-e6 Nf3-g5 Be6-d7 Nd2-c4 Bd6-c7 Nc4-d2 Qd8-e7 Bf1-g2 h7-h6
    16/29   00:04      2,814,802   734,935   +0.37   Bf8-d6 Ng1-f3 Ne5-g6 Qd1-c2 O-O O-O-O c7-c5 Kc1-b1 Rf8-e8 g2-g4 Bc8-e6 Nf3-g5 Be6-d7 Nd2-c4 Bd6-c7 Nc4-d2 Qd8-e7 Bf1-g2 h7-h6
    17/29   00:05      5,793,566   1,222,271   +0.37   Bf8-d6 Ng1-f3 Ne5-g6 Qd1-c2 O-O O-O-O c7-c5 Kc1-b1 Rf8-e8 g2-g4 Bc8-e6 Nf3-g5 Be6-d7 Nd2-c4 Bd6-c7 Nc4-d2 Qd8-e7 Bf1-g2 h7-h6
    18/33   00:07      8,911,843   1,275,124   +0.37   Bf8-d6 Ng1-f3 Ne5-g6 Qd1-c2 O-O O-O-O c7-c5 Kc1-b1 Rf8-e8 g2-g4 Bc8-e6 Nf3-g5 Be6-d7 Nd2-c4 Bd6-c7 Nc4-d2 Qd8-e7 Bf1-g2 h7-h6
    19/36   00:12     15,988,279   1,370,149   +0.37   Bf8-d6 Ng1-f3 Ne5-g6 Qd1-c2 O-O O-O-O c7-c5 Kc1-b1 Rf8-e8 g2-g4 Bc8-e6 Nf3-g5 Be6-d7 Nd2-c4 Bd6-c7 Nc4-d2 Qd8-e7 Bf1-g2 h7-h6
    20/44-   00:56    180,957,920   3,233,123   +0.28   Bf8-d6 Ng1-f3 Ne5-g6 Qd1-c2 O-O O-O-O c7-c5 Kc1-b1 Rf8-e8 g2-g4 Bc8-e6 Nf3-g5 Be6-d7 Nd2-c4 Bd6-c7 Nc4-d2 Qd8-e7 Bf1-g2 h7-h6
    20/44   00:58    189,389,051   3,255,226   +0.38   Bf8-d6 Ng1-f3 Ne5xf3+ Nd2xf3 O-O Be3-g5 Rf8-e8 e2-e3 c7-c6 Bf1-d3 h7-h6 Bg5xf6 Qd8xf6 O-O a7-a5 Bd3-c2 Ra8-a6 Qd1-e2 Ra6-b6 Ra1-b1 Bc8-e6 Rf1-d1 g7-g6 Rd1-d2
    21/45   01:21    281,414,119   3,455,265   +0.35   Ne5-g6 Ng1-f3 Bf8-d6 Qd1-c2 O-O O-O-O c7-c5 Kc1-b1 Rf8-e8 g2-g4 b7-b6 Rh1-g1 Bc8-b7 Qc2-f5 Bb7-c6 g4-g5 Qd8-d7 Qf5xd7 Nf6xd7 h3-h4 Bc6-a4 b2-b3
    22/45   01:33    322,975,429   3,480,713   +0.29   Ne5-g6 Ng1-f3 Bf8-d6 Qd1-c2 O-O O-O-O c7-c5 Kc1-b1 Rf8-e8 g2-g4 b7-b6 Rh1-g1 Bc8-e6 Bf1-g2 Qd8-e7 Nd2-f1 Be6-d7 g4-g5 Nf6-h5 Rd1xd5 Nh5-f4 Rd5-d1 Nf4xg2 Rg1xg2 Bd7xh3
    23/47   02:24    528,371,830   3,667,389   +0.30   Ne5-g6 Ng1-f3 Bf8-d6 Qd1-c2 O-O O-O-O c7-c5 Kc1-b1 Rf8-e8 g2-g4 b7-b6 Rh1-g1 Qd8-e7 Be3-g5 Bc8-e6 e2-e3 a7-a6 Bf1-d3 b6-b5 Bd3-f5 b5-b4 Bf5xe6 Qe7xe6 Bg5xf6 Qe6xf6
    23/55+   05:51   1,485,295,288   4,234,711   +0.38   c7-c5
    23/55   06:14   1,587,052,972   4,240,781   +0.32   c7-c5 Ng1-f3 Ne5-c6 g2-g4 d5-d4 c3xd4 c5xd4 Be3-f4 h7-h5 g4-g5 Nf6-d5 Bf4-h2 Bf8-d6 Bh2xd6 Qd8xd6 Ra1-c1 O-O Nd2-b3 Bc8-d7 Nb3xd4 Ra8-c8 Nd4xc6 Bd7xc6 Qd1-d4 Rf8-e8 a2-a3 Qd6-f4 Qd4xf4 Nd5xf4 Rc1-c3
    24/55   09:26   2,466,993,625   4,354,476   +0.38   c7-c5 g2-g4 Ne5-c6 Bf1-g2 Bc8-e6 Ng1-f3 Qd8-c7 Nf3-g5 Be6-d7 Qd1-c2 Bf8-d6 O-O-O h7-h6 Ng5-f3 O-O Kc1-b1 Ra8-e8 Rh1-g1 Nc6-e7 Rg1-h1 b7-b6 Qc2-d3 Ne7-g6 g4-g5 h6xg5 Nf3xg5 Ng6-f4
    25/57   18:11   4,977,080,325   4,561,562   +0.35   c7-c5 Ng1-f3 Ne5-c6 Be3-f4 Bf8-d6 Bf4xd6 Qd8xd6 e2-e3 Bc8-f5 Bf1-b5 O-O Nf3-h4 Bf5-e6 O-O Rf8-e8 Nh4-f3 Be6-f5 Nf3-h4 Bf5-d7 Nh4-f3 Nc6-e5 Qd1-e2 a7-a6 Bb5xd7
    26/62   26:37   7,365,323,016   4,612,956   +0.30   c7-c5 Ng1-f3 Ne5-c6 Be3-f4 Bf8-d6 Bf4xd6 Qd8xd6 e2-e3 Bc8-f5 Bf1-b5 O-O Nf3-h4 Bf5-e6 O-O Rf8-e8 Nh4-f3 h7-h6 Qd1-c2 a7-a6 Bb5-d3 Ra8-c8 Ra1-d1 b7-b5 Bd3-f5 Be6xf5
   05/18/2011 5:37:32 PM, Time for this analysis: 00:30:00, Rated time: 30:00

0 of 1 matching moves
05/18/2011 5:37:33 PM, Total time: 1:30:30 AM
Rated time: 30:00 = 1800 Seconds
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Re: kingliveson - ?

Postby User923005 » Thu May 19, 2011 1:45 am

Analysis of the original record by Stockfish proved fruitless:
r1bqkb1r/ppp2ppp/2n2n2/3pP3/8/2P1B2P/PP2PPP1/RN1QKBNR b KQkq - acd 33/50; acn 4881648094; acs 1550; bm Nxe5; ce 60; pv Nxe5 Nd2 Bd6 Ngf3 Ng6 Qc2 O-O O-O-O Re8 c4 c6 Kb1 b5 c5 Bc7 Nd4 Bd7 g4 a5 Nf5 Bxf5 gxf5 Nf4 Nf3 Qd7 Nd4 a4 Qc1 Qe7;

But application of Critter, Stockfish and Houdini to the forward position shown below provided the following:
r1bqkb1r/ppp2ppp/5n2/3pn3/8/2P1B2P/PP1NPPP1/R2QKBNR b KQkq - acd 26/62; acn 7365323016; acs 1597; bm c5; ce 30; pv c5 Ngf3 Nc6 Bf4 Bd6 Bxd6 Qxd6 e3 Bf5 Bb5 O-O Nh4 Be6 O-O Rfe8 Nhf3 h6 Qc2 a6 Bd3 Rac8 Rad1 b5 Bf5 Bxf5;
r1bqkb1r/ppp2ppp/5n2/3pn3/8/2P1B2P/PP1NPPP1/R2QKBNR b KQkq - acd 27/69; acn 7505334751; acs 1302; bm Bd6; ce 28; pv Bd6 Ngf3 Nxf3+ Nxf3 c6 Bg5 h6 Bxf6 Qxf6 e3 O-O Bd3 Re8 O-O a5 a4 Be6 Qe2 g6 Rad1 Rad8 Bc2;
r1bqkb1r/ppp2ppp/5n2/3pn3/8/2P1B2P/PP1NPPP1/R2QKBNR b KQkq - acd 32/43; acn 4757055482; acs 1577; bm Bd6; ce 52; pv Bd6 Ngf3 Ng6 Qc2 O-O O-O-O c6 Bd4 Qe7 Kb1 Rd8 Bxf6 Qxf6 e3 a5 Bd3 a4 h4 Bd7 h5 Nf8 c4 a3 Qc3 Bf5 e4 Qxc3 bxc3 dxe4 Nxe4 Bxe4 Bxe4;

I am of the opinion that both Bd6 and c5 are playable and lead to a very small advantage for black.
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Re: kingliveson - ?

Postby Kappatoo » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:49 pm

Is this game in progress now, with BB+ as black?

I am curious to hear from kinliveson why he chose this starting position.
I just found that this line is in Jiri Dufek's book which, I think, came with Rybka 4. It seems to have been played hunreds of times - I strongly suspect not one of them by humans. (Frankly speaking, none of white's moves up to here makes much sense - no offense intended.)
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