64x - Ovyron

Correspondence games between OpenChess members here...

Re: 64x - Ovyron

Postby Uly » Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:56 pm

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. g3 dxc4 5. Bg2 Bd7 6. Ne5
Bc6 7. Nxc6 Nxc6 8. O-O Qd7 9. e3 O-O-O 10. Nd2 h5 11. Nxc4
h4 12. Bd2 Nd5 13. a3 hxg3 14. hxg3 f5 15. b4 g5 16. Qb3
Qh7 17. Rfc1 Bd6 18. b5 Nce7 19. Kf1 Kb8 20. Nxd6 Rxd6
21. a4 Ng8 22. Ke2 Qh5+ 23. Bf3 Qe8 24. Rh1 Rxh1 25. Rxh1
Ngf6 26. Bg2 Rd8 27. Qd3 g4 28. Rh6 Qf8
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Re: 64x - Ovyron

Postby 64x » Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:20 pm

Must admit that I am starting to run out of ideas here:
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5 4.g3 dxc4 5.Bg2 Bd7
6.Ne5 Bc6 7.Nxc6 Nxc6 8.O-O Qd7 9.e3 O-O-O 10.Nd2 h5
11.Nxc4 h4 12.Bd2 Nd5 13.a3 hxg3 14.hxg3 f5 15.b4 g5
16.Qb3 Qh7 17.Rfc1 Bd6 18.b5 Nce7 19.Kf1 Kb8 20.Nxd6 Rxd6
21.a4 Ng8 22.Ke2 Qh5 23.Bf3 Qe8 24.Rh1 Rxh1 25.Rxh1 Ngf6
26.Bg2 Rd8 27.Qd3 g4 28.Rh6 Qf8 29.Rh4
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Re: 64x - Ovyron

Postby Uly » Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:43 am

Around here I'm struggling to draw, some wrong move and the variations explode on my face, such is the case of a move like 29...Qe8 that went over the threshold of safety, so I have to play this one.

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. g3 dxc4 5. Bg2 Bd7 6. Ne5 Bc6 7. Nxc6 Nxc6 8. O-O Qd7 9. e3 O-O-O 10. Nd2 h5 11. Nxc4 h4 12. Bd2 Nd5 13. a3 hxg3 14. hxg3 f5 15. b4 g5 16. Qb3 Qh7 17. Rfc1 Bd6 18. b5 Nce7 19. Kf1 Kb8 20. Nxd6 Rxd6 21. a4 Ng8 22. Ke2 Qh5+ 23. Bf3 Qe8 24. Rh1 Rxh1 25. Rxh1 Ngf6 26. Bg2 Rd8 27. Qd3 g4 28. Rh6 Qf8 29. Rh4 Qd6
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Re: 64x - Ovyron

Postby 64x » Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:48 am

Do you mind if I ask how do you use bookup to store AN? I downloaded the trial and was not obvious to me how to use it that way...

30.Kf1
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Re: 64x - Ovyron

Postby Uly » Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:15 am

Heh, it's nothing sophisticated, I just go to the position that is interesting on the game, and type my analysis manually on the comment box (Commands > show comments).

There you can type anything you want, so each information is easily accessible in any position. You can type there what are the game plans from that position, and if you have a big tree, often the opponent will transpose to old analysis and you'll have a well traced plan even if the opponent plays a surprising move (Commands > Add moves that transpose).

You can also type in each position the evaluation of different engines (like "Rybka 4 says the position is 0.13"), what I use is text of different colors, say, open WordPad and type "13", paint it red and copy it to a Bookup Comment box, then when you see a red 13 you know what it means, and you can use different colors for each engine.

You can type what the same engine thinks about different moves too, just write the move before the eval number (as in e4 13), and you can put different colored numbers after the same move to quickly see what other engines say about the same move, holes will be evident (like, if there's no red number after a move, you know you haven't analyzed that move with Rybka 4).

You can update those eval scores by rewriting them and propagate them backwards, to previous positions, say, if you can't find alternative moves that go beyond 0.13, you propagate it back to the root. As you continue evaluating positions Bookup will tell you how many variations you've analyzed (a number at the right of the move in the interface), that way you can check what moves have few variations analyzed and require more attention.

You can right click to delete moves from the tree (only the link is deleted, all the analysis and comments remain there), or color them (you've got no color, red, yellow, green, red+yellow, red+green, green+yellow and r+y+g), as for what you'd use colors for depends on the situation, I've been using green for "book moves", red for "risky moves", yellow for "human moves" (moves that I force myself that seem initially better than what the engine suggested and need more attention), but they can have many uses; or you can give signs to the moves, I use "!!" for "play this move immediately as it's clearly best", or "!?" for "move looked good at first, and then became risky", etc.

And finally, the best moves can be sorted at the top, this can be done by number of variations analyzed, or by assessments, that you give by clicking on the drop down box at the end of the variation and setting it (+/-, =, -/+, etc.) and Bookup will auto-sort the moves that are worse for this side at the bottom.

ALL my analysis methods take advantage of Book up, though I think it's an obsolete program superseded by Chess Opening Wizard, or something, but I tried a COW Beta and disliked it for some reason.

Anyway, good luck with Bookup! After what I've said, I think it's clear that the less interaction one has with the position, the less useful Bookup becomes, it may not be for everybody.
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Re: 64x - Ovyron

Postby Uly » Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:54 pm

And after all that wall of text, my move:

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. g3 dxc4 5. Bg2 Bd7 6. Ne5 Bc6 7. Nxc6 Nxc6 8. O-O Qd7 9. e3 O-O-O 10. Nd2 h5 11. Nxc4 h4 12. Bd2 Nd5 13. a3 hxg3 14. hxg3 f5 15. b4 g5 16. Qb3 Qh7 17. Rfc1 Bd6 18. b5 Nce7 19. Kf1 Kb8 20. Nxd6 Rxd6 21. a4 Ng8 22. Ke2 Qh5+ 23. Bf3 Qe8 24. Rh1 Rxh1 25. Rxh1 Ngf6 26. Bg2 Rd8 27. Qd3 g4 28. Rh6 Qf8 29. Rh4 Qd6 30. Kf1 c6
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Re: 64x - Ovyron

Postby 64x » Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:20 am

Thank you for sharing! Will give it a shot. Btw I am _really_ enjoying the Black Knights game.

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5 4.g3 dxc4 5.Bg2 Bd7
6.Ne5 Bc6 7.Nxc6 Nxc6 8.O-O Qd7 9.e3 O-O-O 10.Nd2 h5
11.Nxc4 h4 12.Bd2 Nd5 13.a3 hxg3 14.hxg3 f5 15.b4 g5
16.Qb3 Qh7 17.Rfc1 Bd6 18.b5 Nce7 19.Kf1 Kb8 20.Nxd6 Rxd6
21.a4 Ng8 22.Ke2 Qh5 23.Bf3 Qe8 24.Rh1 Rxh1 25.Rxh1 Ngf6
26.Bg2 Rd8 27.Qd3 g4 28.Rh6 Qf8 29.Rh4 Qd6 30.Kf1 c6
31.a5
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Re: 64x - Ovyron

Postby Uly » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:50 am

It's been a great game, specially the tricky parts where finding the best move was really hard, but simplification has entered my horizon, so it's time for a draw offer (up until you decide to accept it).

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. g3 dxc4 5. Bg2 Bd7 6. Ne5 Bc6 7. Nxc6 Nxc6 8. O-O Qd7 9. e3 O-O-O 10. Nd2 h5 11. Nxc4 h4 12. Bd2 Nd5 13. a3 hxg3 14. hxg3 f5 15. b4 g5 16. Qb3 Qh7 17. Rfc1 Bd6 18. b5 Nce7 19. Kf1 Kb8 20. Nxd6 Rxd6 21. a4 Ng8 22. Ke2 Qh5+ 23. Bf3 Qe8 24. Rh1 Rxh1 25. Rxh1 Ngf6 26. Bg2 Rd8 27. Qd3 g4 28. Rh6 Qf8 29. Rh4 Qd6 30. Kf1 c6 31. a5 Rc8 {Draw offer.}
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Re: 64x - Ovyron

Postby 64x » Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:55 am

Hehe, I meant over at Rybkaforum. My AN shows +0.3, but declining beyond depth 40something.... I accept your draw offer.

It has been an enjoyable game, with a couple of positions I will come back later for deeper analysis.
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Re: 64x - Ovyron

Postby Uly » Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:32 am

Indeed, I learned a lot once again, official PGN:

[Event "64x - Ovyron"]
[Site "Open Chess"]
[Date "2010-06-11"]
[Round "1"]
[White "64x"]
[Black "Ovyron"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "E04"]
[Opening "Catalan"]
[Variation "Open, 5.Bg2 Bd7 6.Ne5"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. g3 dxc4 5. Bg2 Bd7 6. Ne5 Bc6 7. Nxc6 Nxc6
8. O-O Qd7 9. e3 O-O-O 10. Nd2 h5 11. Nxc4 h4 12. Bd2 Nd5 13. a3 hxg3 14.
hxg3 f5 15. b4 g5 16. Qb3 Qh7 17. Rfc1 Bd6 18. b5 Nce7 19. Kf1 Kb8 20. Nxd6
Rxd6 21. a4 Ng8 22. Ke2 Qh5+ 23. Bf3 Qe8 24. Rh1 Rxh1 25. Rxh1 Ngf6 26. Bg2
Rd8 27. Qd3 g4 28. Rh6 Qf8 29. Rh4 Qd6 30. Kf1 c6 31. a5 Rc8
{Draw agreed.2010.08.24} 1/2-1/2

Thanks for the game and handshake! Tell me when you're ready to start the second game of the match.

As for the black knights game, I'm not enjoying it much, maybe I'll disclose why after it ends.
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